John Cruden Interview 1

1
Oral History of John C. Cruden, Esq.
This interview is being conducted on behalf of the Oral History Project of The Historical
Society of the District of Columbia Circuit. The interviewer is Tracy H. Scarrow, and the
interviewee is John C. Cruden. The interview took place at Beveridge & Diamond, 1900 N St
NW, Suite 100, Washington, D.C. on November 20, 2019. This is the first interview.
MS. SCARROW: John, can you tell me a little bit about your early childhood? Let’s start
from the beginning.
MR. CRUDEN: I was born in 1946 in Topeka, Kansas in the Florence Crittendon Home
for Unwed Mothers. I was ultimately adopted by a couple in Michigan, but
while waiting for their arrival, was cared for by my adopted father’s sister
in Kansas City. According to her, I was delivered without any paperwork,
and did not have a birth certificate until later. My adopted parents drove
from Michigan, full of excitement about getting a new baby, but
unencumbered by diapers or bottles or blankets. They picked me up in
Kansas and brought me to what became my childhood home in an
exceedingly small town in Michigan called Taylor.
MS. SCARROW: Do you have any records of your birth and the adoption?
MR. CRUDEN: I do now. When I became D.C. Bar President, I was interviewed by the
editor of the D.C. Bar Washington Lawyer Magazine and recounted the
story of my humble origin. Shortly after that interview, the Topeka
Florence Crittendon Home sent me a letter, advising me that they had
gone back to their records and verified that I was born there. They sent me
the record of my birth, my birth mother’s name, birth information, and
visitors. I learned for the first time that my birth mother was pregnant at
15 and gave birth to me when she was 16. I have had no contact with my2
birth mother and have only a small toy she made for me. However, I was
quite fortunate with my adopted parents, who I always will think of as my
“real” parents. They have now passed away but were significant forces in
my life and I treasure them both for what they did for me and how they
guided me into adulthood.
MS. SCARROW: What were your parents like?
MR. CRUDEN: Both of them were immigrants. My father was born in Scotland, and then
moved with his family, including his father who was a Presbyterian
minister, first to Canada and then ultimately to Kansas City, Kansas,
where he grew up.
My mother’s family came from Slovenia, and so she was firstgeneration American, growing up in a postage-stamp, tiny mining town
called Cherokee, Kansas. My parents ultimately met in Kansas City and
were secretly married in 1933. They did not want to tell their parents
about their marriage as they were important breadwinners for their
respective families. A year later, Ford Motor Company advertised that
they were hiring, and would pay the then-princely sum of $5.00 a day, and
my parents quickly announced their marriage and immediately moved far
north to Detroit, Michigan.
MS. SCARROW: You said they moved for jobs. What kinds of jobs did they do?
MR. CRUDEN: My father received company training at Ford Motor Company and
ultimately worked in the steel mill as a crane operator, responsible for
moving molten hot ingots of steel from creation to loading onto railroad3
cars. He was enormously proud of his work and told everyone that he
thought he was the best crane operator in all of Ford Motor Company. My
mother went to business school, and then during World War II, also
worked for Ford Motor Company in an administrative position. A few
years later they adopted a second child, my brother James.
MS. SCARROW: How much younger is your brother than you are?
MR. CRUDEN: My brother has now passed away, but he was two years younger. Also
adopted, he was born in the Detroit area, served in the military, and then
moved to Oklahoma City.
MS. SCARROW: What was it like growing up?
MR. CRUDEN: The town that we grew up in was then a township of maybe 8,000 people,
a 20-square mile former farming community in between Detroit and Ann
Arbor. The town grew rapidly with people like my parents who migrated
from the west and south to have jobs in the auto industry. Our community
was very heavily a blue-collar, middle-class environment, and we were
self-organized by streets into blocks that had their own traditions, culture,
and even neighborhood sport teams. Your friends tended to be those on
your block, and we met others as classmates in our small but vibrant
community. In retrospect, it was like so many other parts of the so-called
downriver area of Detroit, little rapidly growing towns, often evolving
from farming origins to become distant suburbs of Detroit but banded
together in a protected blue-collar environment.4
MS. SCARROW: Do you have any particular friends who stick out in your mind from your
childhood?
MR. CRUDEN: I do and remain close to several of them. The president of our high school
class, James Day, is a close friend and became a psychologist; my best
friend in Boy Scouts, Lee Cagle, went on to teach high school and
coached an award-winning girls’ volleyball team; and my favorite
neighborhood friend, Richard Jones, who led our hockey team, is now a
Baptist minister. They all still live in Michigan.
MS. SCARROW: Can you talk a little about the schools that you attended?
MR. CRUDEN: We could walk to our elementary school with moms serving as crossing
guards for main roads. The rapid expansion of our small town often
resulted in overcrowding, and we moved through a series of interim
schools while new ones were being built. Our blue-collar parents had an
affinity for education, often because they themselves did not have that
opportunity. For example, my father left school in the ninth grade to get a
job to support his fatherless family but cherished and endlessly promoted
education as a pathway to success. Heeding him, my brother and I
attended the local public schools, expanded our circle of friends, played
many of the sports being offered, studied, and lived in a cocoon of lowerand middle-class families all struggling to be better.
MS. SCARROW: What was the name of your high school?
MR. CRUDEN: Taylor Center High School, then the only high school in the town. As the
town expanded, two other high schools were built, but by the 1990s the5
town was contracting in size, no longer buoyed by amazing birth rates.
One aside. As the need for three high schools evaporated, a decision was
made to close the oldest high school, which was the one that I attended.
For the last graduating class, the principal invited me to return as the
graduation speaker. All went well, but just as I finished my address to the
graduating class, they all stood up, whipped off their robes, to show that
they were all wearing colorful t-shirts with the words, “We saved the best
for last.”
MS. SCARROW: Did you have any teachers or mentors who you would say particularly
shaped your childhood?
MR. CRUDEN: Two things come to mind. I was continually active in Boy Scouts, and my
Scoutmaster, Ellis Ankony, was certainly somebody that I looked up to,
clearly mentored me, and set me on a path to become an Eagle Scout. He
was a quiet man with great outdoor skills, who did not motivate you by
words, but by the example he set in his daily life and the way he treated
everyone with great courtesy and dignity. In high school, my track coach,
Claude Herman, was also the school counselor. He took a personal interest
in me and encouraged me to apply to West Point. The coach went so far as
to go to the local congressman’s office and pick up an application for me.
I had already received a track scholarship to the University of Michigan,
but going to West Point was a great dream, and one that clearly changed
my life.6
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned being involved in Boy Scouts. Can you talk a little more
about that?
MR. CRUDEN: Participating in Boy Scouts was an important part of my growing up life.
We had an active troop, with frequent campouts, and many of my friends
and their parents were involved. My mother was the den leader for our
Cub Scouts group, and my father was actively involved when we aged up
to become a full-fledged Boy Scout. (He later received the Silver Beaver
Award, the highest award for volunteers). Boy Scouts provided great
training in leadership, moral behavior, self-reliance, and outdoor skills. It
was competitive with elections for key positions but had a set process of
moving up in rank, ultimately studying for and then being tested to earn
merit badges. I was all caught up in that, and ultimately became an Eagle
Scout, which I was quite proud of. There was also another elite program,
limited to those selected from individual troops, called Order of the
Arrow, and I became active in that program as well.
MS. SCARROW: What is the Order of the Arrow and how did you get elected to what I
understand is an elite Boy Scout organization?
MR. CRUDEN: The Order of the Arrow has a close relationship with Native American
traditions and histories, which is reflected in its name, symbols, and
ceremonies. The Order’s Native American names come from the Lenni
Lenape language and translates to “A Brotherhood of those who serve
cheerfully.” The Order’s fundamentals are also based on the Lenni Lenape
Tribe’s legend. Members often wear Native American regalia and perform7
traditional ceremonies, but the Order is really oriented to providing service
to others of all types. It is considered to be highly prestigious to be
selected, and those selected advance through various levels. In my case,
the Order was administered by the Detroit Council of the Order of the
Arrow. Their representatives came to our local troop and conducted an
election. My troop elected me, and after the initiation process, I became a
full-fledged member. The Detroit area had a large and diverse membership
with two large camps. For each of my summers, starting when I was 15, I
spent the entire summer working in a Boy Scout camp. Those were paid
jobs for the princely sum of $15 a week, and I was an assistant scout
master for other young boys coming to those camps. Not only did those
summers change my life, but they also gave me employment every
summer.
MS. SCARROW: I understand that you were the Detroit area President of Order of the
Arrow?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. By my senior year of high school, I was on the leadership track
having served as the Vice President. By then I had achieved the highest
rank, the Vigil rank, and was given the Native American name of
Clamhatenauen, translated as “the calm minded one.” As the Order of the
Arrow is largely a service organization, I led efforts to assist other Boy
Scouts but also to help underprivileged people in the greater Detroit Area.
During my senior year I was elected as President of the Detroit area.8
MS. SCARROW: I understand you also had the opportunity to speak at the Detroit Eagle
banquet?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes, Detroit had a large, annual celebration for those selected as Eagle.
Once you were chosen as an Eagle, two things happened. First of all, you
were invited to a gala banquet that I did speak at, but second, they offered
you a mentor of your choice, depending on what you wanted to do in the
future. I wanted to go into government service, and so they gave me as a
mentor the Chief of Staff to the Governor of Michigan. I then spent the
day with him in Lansing, which became relevant later when I was
applying to West Point, as he wrote a genuinely supportive letter of
recommendation that helped me. When I spoke at the Eagle banquet, the
featured speaker was the famed actor, Jimmy Stewart. We had several
hours together, and he emphasized to me how important Boy Scouting was
in his life, and the need to have high moral standards and then to live by
them. Good words to an impressionable young man. I deeply admired him.
MS. SCARROW: One more Boy Scout event, the National Boy Scout Jamboree in Colorado
Springs. You attended that?
MR. CRUDEN: I did. The Detroit area created a composite troop, and we traveled by train
to Colorado Springs, Colorado for the Jamboree, which occurred every
four years. It was the first time I had ever been on a train and had a
wonderful experience meeting other Boy Scouts from across America. I
remember two things from that trip. First of all, we stopped at Boys Town
in Nebraska, which had 300 to 400 boys who were in foster care. Since I9
was adopted, that was meaningful for me to see all of them. And then in
Colorado Springs, it was the first time I saw a President. President
Eisenhower came and visited the camps, so we got to see him. That was
quite significant to me.
MS. SCARROW: Did you get an opportunity to meet him?
MR. CRUDEN: I did not. We were in a group. He came through and saw and talked to us,
but I was just part of the group.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that you were deeply involved in track competition. Were
there other organizations during high school that you were particularly
involved in?
MR. CRUDEN: There were several. I was in the science club, played basketball in a
church league, ran cross country, and then wrote and co-directed the
senior play. Primarily, however, I ran track and ultimately received a track
scholarship to the University of Michigan, which is where I would have
gone but for my nomination to West Point. My events were the 440 and
the one-mile relay.
MS. SCARROW: I understand you were also involved in the United Nations Forum?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. Each year, at least in our high school, one person was selected to join
a Detroit group that went to New York City and then spent three days
attending briefings and meetings of the various countries at the United
Nations. We were able to meet students from across the United States, all
of whom had at least some interest in international issues. And along with
going to the Jamboree in Colorado, this was another time that I was able to10
meet a lot of impressive young people outside of my small town. It was
eye opening for me, and it gave me a great impetus to seek diversity in all
that I would do in the future.
MS. SCARROW: I understand that you met your future wife, Sharon, while you were in
high school. Is that correct?
MR. CRUDEN: I did. I mentioned that our high school had plays. One of the plays the
school put on was the musical “Anna and the King of Siam.” Sharon, my
wife to be, was Anna in that play. I did not know her, but I was really,
really impressed by her. At that time, however, you did not just walk up to
a girl and say you wanted to date her, which is what I wanted to do. You
had to be introduced, so I had to find a person who knew her and who also
knew me. A mutual friend arranged the introduction between Sharon and
me, and then we started dating and then became a couple. After I
graduated from West Point, we were promptly married.
MS. SCARROW: What kind of influence do you think your parents had on your education?
MR. CRUDEN: My father had only gone through 9 th grade, and while my mother had
graduated from high school, her graduating class had only twelve people.
Despite that, they were enormously interested in education, and in my
earliest recollection, they made it clear they wanted me to go to college
even though they barely understood what college entailed. They didn’t
really understand how to apply and be accepted, they just believed
strongly that education could be a trajectory to success. So, despite the
fact that they did not attend college, nor had they even visited a college,11
they made it very clear to me that they expected me to go to college. They
also had no idea what college cost or how to fund it, and so the track
scholarship that I received for the University of Michigan was enormously
important as it gave me confidence and some crucial financial support.
Ultimately, the West Point nomination solved the financial challenges –
but created others. But without question, my parents had a key role in
encouraging me to go to college. And that was particularly true in my high
school where under 5% attended college.
MS. SCARROW: When you were growing up, did you have dreams of doing anything in
particular?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. I wanted to be a basketball star. The only problem was that my ability
certainly did not connect with my aspiration. During that time period,
there were a lot of good Detroit sport teams that we followed, and all of
our heroes were sports figures, like Gordy Howe the Red Wings hockey
star and Al Kaline the Tigers baseball player. However, I was completely
drawn to the life and then presidency of John F. Kennedy, and the signed
picture he sent me at my request when he is was just a Senator is in my
office today. In many ways his inaugural address was the inspiration that
ultimately caused me to seek government service.
MS. SCARROW: Is there anything else about your childhood that we haven’t covered that
you would like to talk about?
MR. CRUDEN: No. Wait, just one, my father took me to the Tigers baseball game when
Mickey Mantle hit the ball completely out of the park.12
MS. SCARROW: Wow, what a great sports moment to witness. As you mentioned, you
went to West Point. Can you talk a little bit more about how you ended up
there?
MR. CRUDEN: There’s a rigorous process that you go through to apply, which includes
competing for a congressional appointment. Ultimately, I had two such
appointments. My local congressman nominated me, as did the Michigan
congressman-at-large. We then completed qualifying mental and physical
tests. There was a relatively brief period of time between graduating from
high school and then reporting to New York to West Point. And it is fair
to say that I had little idea what I was getting myself into, as I knew no
one in the military and certainly did not know any West Point graduates. I
was about to learn what being a plebe really meant.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that you were also recommended by the chief of staff of
the Governor of Michigan.
MR. CRUDEN: Yes, he wrote a glowing letter on my behalf, as did others, which I am
sure helped me get the appointment since he was well known and highly
regarded in Michigan.
MS. SCARROW: Who were the congressmen?
MR. CRUDEN: William Ford was the congressman from my district, and Neil Stabler was
then the congressman-at-large from Michigan.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that you were the first person in your family to go to
college. I understand that you were also the first person in your town to go
to West Point.13
MR. CRUDEN: That’s true.
MS. SCARROW: Was there something else in particular, other than, of course, the financial
impact of going to college, which drew you to West Point?
MR. CRUDEN: After I received, or at least knew I was going to get the Congressional
nomination, another fellow, Ed Thal, who was then a freshman at the
University of Michigan, also received a nomination from his congressman,
and he contacted me and asked me: “have you accepted yet,” I said “no,”
and he said he had not either. He suggested, because he had a sporty red
convertible, that we would drive to West Point and check it out. We drove
from Michigan to West Point nonstop and stayed in the historic Thayer
Hotel, which is on the grounds of West Point. We walked the beautiful
campus, talked to people, and were amazed, as only 18-year-old young
men can be, gifted with raw energy but with no common sense. We
thought West Point to be a spectacular place. A beautiful set of granite
buildings on a turn of the Hudson River, surrounded by mountains, with
its own ski slope, lake, and golf course. Everybody looked happy. Of
course, we neglected to find out that we were not actually seeing any
plebes, because they were not let out, and those smiling students we saw
were all upperclassmen. So, after our highly naïve review, we both
decided this would be a grand place to attend. Our comeuppance came
soon enough.
MS. SCARROW: Going from Michigan to West Point, what was the transition like for you?14
MR. CRUDEN: It came fast and hard. My parents drove me to West Point’s Thayer Hotel,
and a bus then drove us to the gates of the Academy, the so-called sally
ports. We were greeted by an enormous cadet, a football player type, who
quickly informed us that we now belonged to him. Our lives changed at
that moment and the first stop was at the barber shop where they shaved
off all my hair. They politely took my suitcase, which I never saw again
until Christmas. Then we were given a vast array of vaccinations, taped,
measured, and photographed, and then instantly sent out to learn to march
so we could be sworn in that afternoon in front of adoring parents.
That summer was one long physical and mental challenge of the
highest order. We were taught to march, wear a uniform, polish brass and
shoes until they glowed, and memorize countless pages of West Point
historical information and information on leadership, ethics, and survival.
We did enormous numbers of athletic activities and military drills. This
was all during the first summer, when the Academy leadership was
dedicated to trying to train new cadets to be a military officer but also
teaching century’s worth of critical thought that has gone into growing
ethical leaders, which is really an essential part of the West Point process.
Now looking back on it, at that stage in my life, I can confidently
state that we were all a bit overwhelmed. Every minute of your life was
regimented, programmed, and organized. We had classes every Saturday
and the Sunday chapel was mandatory. We could not leave the Academy,
and vacations were one month in the summer and one week over15
Christmas. Just last year I went to the Air Force Academy for a football
game with some of my West Point classmates. One of the wives asked us
collectively, “did you like it?” No one answered yes. One person then
responded for all of us: “It is not something you liked. It was something
you endured. And we are all proud that we did it.”
MS. SCARROW: Do you feel that it was what you were expecting and that you were
prepared for it, or was it all new?
MR. CRUDEN: I was completely unprepared. As an impressionable teenager I entered a
military world where college courses were only just part of the experience,
but often not the most demanding part. I would say my Boy Scout training
helped because it made me comfortable in the military-like environment.
But most of the training was absolutely new to me. Also, because it’s
West Point, there are massive amounts of challenges to meet, from semiannual comprehensive physical tests that are mandatory to pass, to
complying with the most rigorous Honor Code in the Nation, demanding
that you do not “lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate anyone that does.”
MS. SCARROW: Obviously, West Point is extremely rigorous, both in the physical sense
and the educational sense. Were there things that you found particularly
hard or particularly easy?
MR. CRUDEN: Starting with athletics, it was mandatory to take and pass classes in
boxing, swimming, wrestling, and gymnastics. I had swum before, and my
father had been a semi-pro boxer and showed me moves, so it turned out16
that I was good at boxing, and I boxed or coached boxing all four years.
Wrestling and gymnastics were new.
In school, the Sylvanus Thayer academic model meant that you
received a grade in every class every day. You were called on to “recite,”
by standing at the blackboard and outlining a math problem, an English
literature plot, or a military exercise. You then rushed home in the
afternoon to change clothes and participate in organized sports, either at
the varsity level or with the highly competitive, well-organized intramural
program. My first year I ran track, competed in skiing, and then did canoe
racing. And everyone received annual leadership evaluations from other
cadets and officers that could also result in them being asked to leave the
Academy.
We started out with a class of about 1,000 people and ultimately
graduated just over 700, all of whom would ultimately serve in combat.
MS. SCARROW: Did you find it difficult going from Michigan to West Point away from
your family? You were presumably away from your girlfriend at the time.
Was that hard, that isolation?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. All of us had moments of loneliness, missing our family or – in my
case – my wife-to-be. We were very envious of those cadets who had
nearby families who would visit them and bring them food. Food was
enormously important because you were constantly hungry, not because
they didn’t feed us well but because of the intense level of physical
activity. But I would also say on the other side that being intensely active,17
requiring total concentration and dedication, very often meant loneliness
was superseded by basic survival strategies. And your classmates became
your family.
MS. SCARROW: I understand that you were a cadet officer and also elected to be an Honor
representative.
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. By my last year I was selected as a cadet officer and was elected by
my peers to be on the Honor Committee. Leadership opportunities start in
your third year and those who did well were selected for higher positions
their senior year. The Honor Committee was different, as that was an
elected position, voted on by members of your company. At that stage in
West Point history the Honor Code was run exclusively by cadets, who
were charged with investigating possible violations, and resolving the
allegations. Some violations were self-reported, others discovered and
reported by classmates or the Academy professors. My experience on the
Honor Committee was a forerunner to my legal profession. Allegations
were resolved by the committee, sitting as a jury. Those determined to
have violated the Honor Code were dismissed from the Academy.
Although the Honor Code remains in effect today, it now has much more
officer involvement and expulsions are not automatic.
MS. SCARROW: Did you find it difficult sitting in judgment of your peers?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. West Point faculty and senior cadets spent a lot of time from the very
first week explaining the Code, and emphasizing it was also an
expectation of Army officers. As an honor representative, we met all the18
time with all of our Company-mates explaining what was happening,
discussing anything that caused problems and reacquainting them with the
Honor Code’s requirements and implementation. The process was
detailed, fair, and demanding, and the Code became a touchstone for my
personal morality.
MS. SCARROW: Did you have any particularly influential teachers or courses that stick out
in your mind?
MR. CRUDEN: Two. I had my first law course at West Point, a survey course on law, with
many case studies. It caught my attention, and I studied beyond the
requirements and did well. Later, in my first assignment as an officer in
Germany, I started taking law courses in the evening to find out whether
or not I really wanted that as a profession. It all started, however, with one
good professor and one good course. That person made a difference in my
life, and I wish I could thank him now.
One of the only four electives that I could take during my four
years was on national security issues, and the professor was Major Peter
Dawkins. Pete Dawkins was a Heisman trophy winner and a Rhodes
Scholar. He was a wonderful teacher we all looked up to, and he
frequently invited us to his house after school. He talked about his own
experiences in the military and was inspirational to me because despite his
many athletic accomplishments, he chose military service.
I won’t say the next person was a mentor, although we all looked
up to him, as he was our regimental commander. The leader of the19
regiment I served in was Colonel Alexander Haig. Colonel Haig had just
returned from serving in Vietnam, and he ultimately became the
President’s Chief of Staff, the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, and
the Secretary of State. Because I was the designated Honor representative,
I had a number of discussions with Colonel Haig about what we were
doing, and he gave me practical advice about becoming and being an
Infantry officer. Later when he became the head of Europe Command, and
I was in Heidelberg, he would contact me, and I would give him legal
assistance and legal advice on a personal level.
MS. SCARROW: I understand that Norman Schwarzkopf was also there at the time?
MR. CRUDEN: A lot of future generals pass through West Point to either teach or serve as
tactical officers. I knew then-Major Schwarzkopf when he was assigned to
West Point. Later, we renewed our acquaintance when he spent a day with
me in Charlottesville, Virginia when I was part of the faculty teaching law
to General Officers before they assumed command. Ultimately, he led the
task force that liberated Kuwait.
MS. SCARROW: Were there any fellow classmates who stick in your mind or who went on
to do other important things?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. I would first honor those too many classmates of mine who died in
Vietnam. My class commissioned a painting, which now hangs on the wall
of my office, with West Point in all its splendor, looking up from the
Parade Grounds to the Chapel. Superimposed on that beautiful scene is the
names of the 21 of my classmates who died in Vietnam. My roommate,20
John Darling, and my debate partner, Peter Connor, both paid the ultimate
price.
My class gave the country ten Generals, over 500 combat tours,
three Deputy Assistant Secretaries of Defense, 50 medical doctors, 50
lawyers, five ministers, and two college presidents. And then there was
John Wing, who became the vice president of Samuel Adams Beer
Company. Well, you can imagine how popular he became at each class
reunion when the Sam Adams beer truck followed us everywhere we went
and would set up the station as soon as we stopped to dispense libations
for all. Ours became one of the more popular reunion classes because of
the Sam Adams’ beer truck.
MS. SCARROW: Can you talk a little bit about the types of activities that you participated in
at West Point?
MR. CRUDEN: Although life was governed by academics, athletics, and military
responsibilities, there was a vast array of other activities available. I found
that I was good at boxing and did that for all four years. I joined the Fine
Arts Forum that brought speakers, artists, and musicians from New York
City to educate and present to us. In one of these sessions, I met George
Balanchine, the well-known choreographer, who co-founded the New
York City Ballet. He spoke to us about The Nutcracker ballet and then
invited us to watch it in New York City and meet with the dancers.
I was also on the intercollegiate debate team, which competed in a
number of places in the United States. And I participated in a number of21
Model United Nations Forums, where we were assigned a country to
represent and then role-played UN votes and debates. There were Forums
in many unusual places, so the combination of debate and Model UN
Forums allowed me to leave the Academy on trips a fair amount my last
few years at the Academy.
Probably my most important extracurricular activity was serving as
the National President for the XIX Student Conference on United States
Affairs (SCUSA). SCUSA was a gigantic student-run event each year and
I was selected as the National President. Hundreds of colleges sent
representatives to the conference at West Point and leaders of the
administration gave presentations including the Secretary of State and the
Undersecretary of Defense. We spent countless hours preparing for the
conference, and then I introduced the speakers, was master of ceremonies
for our dinners, and gave presentations throughout the conference. It was
quite successful and completely immersed me in foreign affairs and
national security issues.
MS. SCARROW: I know that you had a 30-day vacation during the summer, but what else
did you do?
MR. CRUDEN: Each summer we had proscribed activities, some at the Academy and
some elsewhere. The first summer was spent at Camp Buckner, located on
a lake just outside of the Academy. That was a summer of advanced
military training with weapons, military tactics, strenuous PT, and the
occasional swimming event in the adjoining lake. The second summer22
before my junior year I spent at Fort Riley, Kansas as a platoon leader
with the Ninth Infantry Division. I was given a platoon with thirty men,
new armored personnel carriers, and helicopters; and we were allowed to
use large training areas. We did all the things that soldiers do, and I found
that to be personally rewarding. I really liked leadership responsibility.
This was my first real taste of an Infantry unit, and that experience led me
to choose that branch of the military my senior year. The other summer
activities included time supervising plebes, traveling to many of the key
military bases in the United States, and going to sea on a naval battleship.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned the academics and the other extracurricular that you were
involved in. How did you manage your time with all these competing
interests?
MR. CRUDEN: One of the most popular things to do at West Point was sleeping. We were
all forced to learn time management and how to prioritize. We all learned,
some more slowly than others, and I had to find out the hard way that
staying up all night typing English papers just before a major physical
fitness test was not a pathway to success. In retrospect, they gave us far
more challenges than we could do, but that was intentional, as it mimics
real life. Setting priorities was essential and life demanding. Later, in
combat, decisions were made by all of us based on the best intelligence we
could gain, but often with little time. The Academy was preparing us for
what we would experience as soldiers.23
MS. SCARROW: West Point is also known for emphasizing personal relationships. Do you
think that background influenced you later in life in your own personal
philosophy?
MR. CRUDEN: We referred to this philosophy as the concept we called “shared agony,”
but it did bring us close together, relying on one another completely. My
classmates are still some of my closest friends and in the DC area we get
together bi-monthly. That was something else I think was probably done
intentionally – pushing everyone so hard that you had to rely on
classmates to survive. That had a positive factor for me later in the
military, as it taught me to delegate to trusted individuals, motivate others
toward a common goal, and maintain a valued circle of friends.
I would say that another part of West Point legacy is that you do
become close to all the people that you room with and all the people you
competed with on sport teams. By the time that I was graduating in 1968,
we were already burying members of the class in front of us at the West
Point cemetery, including my first boxing coach, Richard “Buck”
Thompson. Marching alongside a casket of someone you cared for deeply
puts a real premium on life and causes reflection on what you consider to
be important and worth doing. And it made you draw closer to those you
lived with and came to admire, hoping that they would be one of the
fortunate ones who would survive the inevitable combat assignments we
all knew would be in our immediate future.24
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned roommates. I understand that you’re assigned roommates
for a semester or a short period of time, so you would have had multiple
roommates over the course of a year.
MR. CRUDEN: We all had multiple roommates, some randomly assigned, some chosen.
The first few years were all random, often three to a room, so working out
the logistics of sleeping, bathing, and cleaning rifles was always
challenging. By the time that I was a senior I had the same roommate, Bill
Kunzman, throughout the entire year, and we remained close friends. Of
course, all of my roommates were young men, all high testosterone, sleepdeprived, remarkably strong, with low tolerance and a complete absence
of great virtues like patience and fear. Arguments were normal, vigorous
wrestling matches common, and pranks abounded. I remember my junior
year when we had three roommates in a small room, and one of them was
on the wrestling team, cutting weight, and generally unbearable. My other
roommate and I decided we had enough and moved all of his clothes and
books into the hall and then locked him out of the room. Since he was
way bigger than we were, we ultimately let him back in but with
assurances of better actions in the future.
MS. SCARROW: History and tradition are also especially important aspects of life at West
Point. Do you think that also had an influence on your life and how you
look at things?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. We were inculcated constantly with West Point dedication to “duty,
honor, and country.” We memorized portions of famous speeches that25
were given there, and rapidly absorbed the history and traditions of an
institution that has been in place since 1802. The values of the Academy
become embedded in my life, placed there at a very formative age, and
then honed to action in military experience. Not everything they pushed us
to do was consequential, but without question it changed my life in a
positive direction and gave me a moral compass that I rely on daily.
MS. SCARROW: Do you have any stories or particularly fond memories of any of the
traditions? Also, were there a lot of injuries?
MR. CRUDEN: This is not a tradition, but as a lawyer, you will roll your eyes when I tell
you this. When we arrived at West Point, we were given three religious
choices. You could be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. Those were your
only choices, and that was really relevant because we had a mandatory
church. So, on Saturday or Sunday, you were lined up and marched to
your religious place. Now many fell asleep during church, but you still had
to attend. There was only one exception, volunteering to be a Sunday
school teacher, an option I chose. Instead of being marched to the chapel,
we were bused to a nice little elementary school. I had an elementary class
to teach and became fond of the children and their parents. When my
future wife came to visit me, she would stay with one of my students.
Those sorts of relationships mattered and made the unique college
experience more bearable.
Injuries were also a part of our life because it was physically
demanding. One of my better friends was my roommate, John Darling,26
who later died in Vietnam, but in a volleyball match, I broke his nose in a
downward swing at the net. And in a subsequent lacrosse match, he, and
another cadet cross-blocked me, split my thigh muscle open, which caused
me to spend about three months in the hospital my senior year.
I have to say those sorts of injuries were just absolutely normal,
virtually everybody knew a lot about rehabilitation and physical therapy.
MS. SCARROW: How did you manage to be in the hospital for three months and keep up
with all your academic work and everything else?
MR. CRUDEN: My three months started because of my lacrosse injury and then was
extended when I contracted hepatitis. Faculty members came to the
hospital for my academic instruction. They would wheel me over to a
small room, and I would get one-on-one instruction, and take the same
tests as everyone else. I am incredibly grateful for the extra work they had
to do in order for me to succeed. I would not have graduated on time
without the support of the individual professors who came to my hospital
bed each day.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that it was the Infantry that was interesting to you. Why
was that the case and how did you select that branch?
MR. CRUDEN: The Army has something called the Combat Arms. Those are the branches
that go to war: Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Signal Corps, and Engineers.
When it came time to select a branch, we went to the largest auditorium on
campus and on the stage was a board listing the number of positions
available in each branch. Then, one at a time, by class rank, each cadet’s27
name was called, and you had to select a branch. If you were at the end of
your class, you only had an extremely limited choice of what was left.
Fortunately, I was high enough in my class to get my first choice, and I
picked Infantry. I thought that the leadership opportunities and the tactical
and strategic thinking that went into Infantry’s military operations was a
good fit for me. And I chose Airborne Infantry for the perfectly good
reason that my salary as a new Second Lieutenant would be about $350 a
month, but by being a parachutist, I received an extra $110 a month. It was
also exhilarating to participate in airborne operations. And my selection
allowed me to join elite units. I stayed in Airborne, Ranger, or Special
Forces units from then until law school.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that you at least periodically got to see Sharon during your
time at West Point. Did you get to see her often? How were you able to
maintain your relationship over those years?
MR. CRUDEN: That was not easy. She was in college in Ann Arbor and then in Chicago.
At that stage, we did not have cell phones. We had pay phones, and there
was only one in our area. If I wanted to call her, I would stand in line with
a bag full of quarters. I would then call her dorm, and someone had to find
her. By the time we started talking, the cadet behind me would already be
knocking at the telephone door, telling me I had been on too long. We
wrote a lot of letters to each other.
Each year we were together on Christmas vacation, and thirty days
leave in the summer, but those were the only times that I was home during28
my four years at West Point. And West Point prohibited anyone from
being married while they attended the Academy. I had to sign a statement
and pledge when I returned from leave confirming that I had not married
during that time. So, our romance was truly letter-writing, occasional
phone calls, only seeing each other a few times a year in person for the
first two years. By the time of the third and fourth years, we were able to
see each other more. I am still amazed she was willing to marry me.
MS. SCARROW: I understand you got married shortly after graduation.
MR. CRUDEN: We decided not to get married at West Point. Although it’s popular to get
married there shortly after graduation in their gorgeous chapel with a
nearby officer’s club for a reception, we wanted to have our hometown
friends with us and all of our family. In my new Pontiac Le Mans, bought
on credit, Sharon and I drove from West Point to Michigan and were
married ten days later. We chose the historic Mary Martha Chapel at
Greenfield Village in Dearborn, Michigan to be married. Greenfield
Village, then and now, was a place Henry Ford put together where he
assembled scientific homes and engineering artifacts from across the
Nation. Thomas Edison’s laboratory and the Wright Brothers bicycle shop
are there, as is the Mary Martha Chapel, the chapel of Henry Ford and his
mother. Four of my classmates came and we were all in our dress
uniforms. My classmates presented the arch of sabers as we exited the
church, and our local newspaper showed that picture in the paper the next29
day. Those forming the arch were new Lieutenants Ed Thal, William
Kunzman, George Heckman, and John Darling, all close friends.
MS. SCARROW: You transitioned right from West Point to getting married. What was that
initial newlywed period like?
MR. CRUDEN: We had 60 days to adjust before I reported to active duty. Our honeymoon
consisted of camping across Canada, and then down the western coast to
California. We had a Highlight trailer, a small trailer that folds out into a
bed and room. We went across the Trans-Canadian Highway and then
drove south through Glacier National Park and then along the west coast
to California before returning to Michigan. We now look back and ask
ourselves “what were we thinking”! We didn’t have any money and barely
knew each other. But that whole experience brought us closer together.
We were a young, married couple that had spent four years in a longdistance romance, now forced to spend every moment together. We both
realized we had a lot to learn about each other, about being married, about
sharing thoughts and dreams, about arguing and not winning, about caring
deeply, and expressing feelings. We remember that time fondly, but it was
hardly planned, more like a series of episodic learning events.
MS. SCARROW: What did you do after your camping honeymoon?
MR. CRUDEN: I reported to Fort Benning, Georgia, the home of the Infantry Branch, and
began a series of schooling. As I was ultimately going to an airborne
battalion in Germany, I first went to the three-week airborne school that
culminated in 5 tactical jumps, many from a C130 aircraft. Following30
airborne school, I then went to a more advance training called the
“jumpmaster” school, which included more parachute jumps and more
rigorous instruction. Jumpmasters are plane leaders who check gear for
proper alignment, direct the parachutists’ exit out of an airplane, and are
generally in charge of the parachuting operation. I went right from that to
the Infantry officers’ basic course, designed to introduce new officers to
the Infantry and the military way of life.
The last, and by far the most demanding school of my life, was the
famous Ranger school, at Fort Benning, Dahlonega, Georgia, and Florida.
The three-month Ranger school lasted until just before Christmas of 1968.
During that time Sharon returned to Michigan to be a substitute
elementary school teacher.
Ranger school was in three phases. The first phase at Fort Benning
consisted of basic small unit training, then the mountain phase in the snow
of Georgia, and finally the swamp phase in the wilds of southern Florida.
Training was rigorous, weather conditions were often awful. But it was the
best class of my life and probably saved me in Vietnam. We parachuted
from helicopters into simulated combat, navigated through swamps at
night in small rubber boats, climbed mountains with heavy weapons and
little food or water, and learned to be resourceful, flexible, versatile, and
never, never to give up. Later, in my Ranger unit in Vietnam, I put to use
all of the skills I learned in this remarkable course.31
When Ranger School was over, I flew home to join Sharon. We
had our own small Christmas and then packed up to go to our first military
assignment in Mainz, Germany.
MS. SCARROW: Tell me about your first post in Mainz, Germany.
MR. CRUDEN: Germany was then the Federal Republic of Germany, divided into east and
west. Mainz, Germany was along the Rhine River, with the headquarters
of the First Brigade of the 8th Infantry Division. The brigade had two
airborne battalions, and I was assigned to the 2d Battalion. We had both
offensive and defensive responsibilities in Europe. The Battalion was
constantly training, often at distant training grounds in Baumholder or
Grafenwöhr, Germany. We earnestly trained, regularly jumped out of
airplanes into various places in Europe and practiced military maneuvers
in specialized armored personnel carriers. The military exercises were all
designed, during the height of the Cold War, to offset possible invasion
routes by what was then the Soviet Union.
MS. SCARROW: What was your position there?
MR. CRUDEN: First as a platoon leader, with thirty combat-trained soldiers with far more
experience than me. Later I was selected to be the Battalion Operations
officer, a position the military calls the S-3. The position called for a
Major, but I was only a First Lieutenant, full of more ambition than
knowledge. I was responsible for all the training and operations of the
entire battalion. I stayed in that position until I was assigned to Vietnam.32
MS. SCARROW: I understand that as part of those roles, you ran the airborne exercises
across Germany?
MR. CRUDEN: I did. It was a heady time for a recent West Point graduate and now a First
Lieutenant. The responsibility of directing an entire battalion in airborne
exercises all across Germany was a wonderful experience. We also were
on call as a quick reaction force during tense political times and
sometimes sat on a runway with parachutes and all our gear so that we
could have quickly responded to a crisis situation. It was a highly trained,
high morale, elite unit, proud of its history, proud of being airborne
soldiers.
MS. SCARROW: I understand that as part of these exercises, both in Germany, and later on
when you were in Vietnam, you completed about thirty parachute jumps,
correct?
MR. CRUDEN: I did. Most of my parachute jumps were in Germany, but I also did a
combat jump in Vietnam and was a secondary jumpmaster for a
clandestine airborne operation there as well.
MS. SCARROW: Was that something that you enjoyed or would do again?
MR. CRUDEN: Not always enjoyable but usually exhilarating. It was incredibly exciting
to jump out of airplanes, sometimes from helicopters, and occasionally
from big jets called C141s. It was absolutely adrenalin producing, but for
me, this was a job to do. And I do recall one jump missing the drop zone
and hitting the back of a pickup truck.
MS. SCARROW: Was Sharon with you when you were in Germany?33
MR. CRUDEN: She was. Sharon came, and she became a teacher in Germany while we
were there. She was also elected as Vice President of the Women’s
Association.
MS. SCARROW: Did you all have much free time to take in the German culture?
MR. CRUDEN: We took a number of small trips across Germany, and Sharon was able to
take advantage of military vacations that were available, like a learn to ski
week. We then went downhill skiing together at the Zugspitze, the highest
mountain in Germany, south of Garmisch. We also went to London over
Christmas, and took a week’s vacation in Greece, traveling from Athens to
Olympia.
MS. SCARROW: In early 1970, you were assigned to a post in Vietnam.
MR. CRUDEN: Yes.
MS. SCARROW: Can you talk a little about that?
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. I was assigned to be the Senior Advisor to the 38th Ranger Battalion,
part of the 5th Ranger Group. We wore distinctive camouflage uniforms,
and berets. Their headquarters was a little south of Saigon. The 38 th
Battalion was famous in Vietnam, having broken through enemy lines
during the 1968 Tet offensive and rescued many trapped in Saigon.
I went first as a senior advisor of that battalion with a team led by
my Master Sergeant Edward Abbadusky and Senior Lieutenant Kenneth
Pliskie. Later, because of my experience as an operations officer in
Germany, I became the senior operations officer for the brigade. Then,
when the combat operations into Cambodia were being planned, I was34
transferred to be the Senior Advisor of the 33d Ranger Battalion, one of
the lead units in that incursion. Then when I came out of Cambodia, I was
reassigned back to where I started, with the 38th Ranger Battalion. I stayed
in that assignment until the end of the year. At that time, the battalion
commander that I’d had in Germany, Colonel BJ Pinkerton, had become
the head of the Special Forces Unit in Vietnam, and he offered me a job in
the Special Forces. I then transferred from being in the Rangers to Special
Forces, a clandestine unit called the Studies and Observation Group,
which had responsibility for intelligence gathering and cross-border
operations into Laos, North Vietnam, and Cambodia.
MS. SCARROW: Anything stand out during your time with the Rangers?
MR CRUDEN Yes. During my tenure I went through a second Ranger school, this one
conducted by Australian Special Forces in the mountains west of Nha
Trang. The entire battalion went through four demanding weeks.
Excellent training, and graduation exercises were a live fire battalion size
operation in hostile territory. My most memorable event was when the
battalion commander shot a many-banded krait, probably the snake with
the most toxic venom in the world, lingering next to my head.
MS. SCARROW: I understand when you were with the Rangers you received the
Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star?
MR. CRUDEN: I did.
MS. SCARROW: For people not familiar with the military, can you tell us what that means
and what it meant to you?35
MR. CRUDEN: It was a Vietnamese valor award, which is their highest, for operations in
Cambodia. When we were deep into Cambodia, we went by helicopter to a
Cambodian village and had a firefight there with North Vietnamese
regulars. When we thought we had secured the village and protected the
local citizens, we started to leave, and I called in the helicopters for a
pickup. We moved to a small clearing, big enough for the helicopters to
land, but surrounded by a jungle. Just as the helicopters were starting to
land, a large force attacked us from all sides, driving the helicopters away
and making us take protective cover. We were attacked by a large force of
North Vietnamese, who were there to trap us, but everyone stayed calm,
and we fought back for a considerable period of time. That allowed me to
move to a better location and call-in supporting helicopters, called
gunships, that then provided protective fire as I directed them. The
battalion was then able to regroup, counterattack, and stabilized their
position. By that time, I had the helicopters safely landing for the pickup. I
came out last. We had a number of our force wounded, but no one killed
in what could have been a tragedy. The Vietnamese were grateful and
gave me their award for valor and even a parade. Frankly, I thought I was
just doing my job.
MS. SCARROW: These positions, as you mentioned, were combat positions. That must have
been an exceedingly demanding thing to experience. How did that affect
you?36
MR. CRUDEN: All combat is difficult. Every war is horrible, and I strongly believe that is
one of the reasons why soldiers are good people to talk to about peace
because anybody who has experienced the horror of war knows that it
should only be the last resort. All who have been involved in any war are
usually firm advocates for peace except when national security is
endangered. Some of the greatest people I’ve encountered in my life were
in the Special Forces, officers and men who I served with. They were
exceedingly brave and remarkably able, and it was an honor to be part of
that elite unit, and the professionalism was extraordinary. It was what I
was trained to do. At the same time, war is always a great tragedy with
many innocent people as victims. In my own case, I found that I was good
at something I was not at all certain I wanted to continue, and clearly did
not want war making to be my life’s calling.
MS. SCARROW: When you were with the Special Forces, I understand you received the
Bronze Star for that work.
MR. CRUDEN: When I was in the Special Forces, we received credible intelligence of a
prisoner of war (POW) camp with U.S. personnel in Cambodia. I led the
effort attempting to confirm the camp’s location and then prepare for an
operation to rescue them. I first flew over the area at an elevated level in a
small airplane but could not confirm the location. I then directed and
supervised a team to jump by parachute at night into Cambodia to
determine whether the POW camp was actually there. We had a lot of
valuable surveillance but ultimately decided that although there had been a37
prisoner of war camp some time ago, it had been moved out of our area.
We did, however, learn a lot about enemy operations in the area. For that
action I received the Bronze Star.
MS. SCARROW: I understand you also received the Air Medal with oak leaf clusters.
MR. CRUDEN: Yes. The Air Medals were really for surviving. We directed and planned
endless helicopter operations when I was in the Rangers to protect U.S.
military located in large installations. My Ranger units ran what we called
“High-Low” operations in which there was a lower helicopter below a
higher helicopter. The lower helicopter had a massive searchlight which
often drew enemy fire, and then the higher helicopter descended with their
rockets and machine guns when needed. I did a lot of those operations,
and spent hundreds of hours in the air, and received the Air Medal with
oak leaf clusters for multiple actions, many under hostile fire. I did see my
first tiger in the wild in Vietnam in one of these operations where we had a
search light and the tiger stared back up at us, and then casually walked
away. And, when Bob Hope came to town, it was my Ranger Battalion
that provided security, using these helicopters and ground patrols.
MS. SCARROW: You mentioned that you took some law classes at West Point which you
enjoyed and then you took some night courses to see if that was something
you were interested in. And I understand that when you were in Vietnam,
you started to think maybe law school was something you should pursue.
Is that where that idea really took hold?38
MR. CRUDEN: It did. During my first year in Vietnam, I was allowed to go to Hawaii for
Christmas, and my wife Sharon joined me in Honolulu, we spent a week
reacquainting ourselves but also planning what I would do next. (Sharon
had returned to Michigan and was an elementary school teacher and lived
with her mother). I had done some research and found that an Army
program called Excess Leave existed, and if I could get accepted into a
law school, the military would let me attend on a leave of absence.
Although I would not get paid while in school, they did pay during
summer and holidays when I reverted to active duty. We decided that it
would be our next step.
You’ll smile at how naïve I was at that stage because I never heard
of anything called the Law School Aptitude Test (LSAT), nor did I have
any idea how to apply to law school and certainly did not know how to do
that from Vietnam. Ultimately, I figured out that I had to take the LSAT,
but as I was still in Special Forces that was logistically difficult but,
somewhat surprisingly, there was one LSAT test site in Saigon. The few
of us taking the test all came with guns, ammunition, and hand grenades as
this was a war zone. The test was given in a small, smelly room at a
protected air base. They passed out the tests, then asked if we had number
2 pencils. Of course, none of us did, so they had to find us pencils. Then
they decided we needed to stack our guns along the wall. Midway through
the test the supervisors also decided they should collect our ammunition39
and hand grenades. Unencumbered by preparation or any factual
knowledge of what the test was about, I took the LSAT.
When I received the LSAT results, which ultimately allowed me to
apply to law school, not surprisingly I had lots of other things going on as
a Special Forces Officer so the act of applying, or even filling out an
application, was difficult. When I finally had a free day, the application
deadline for every single law school in the Nation had passed. So, I made
my decision to apply to schools based on which deadline was the most
recent. The three schools with the most recent deadlines were
Georgetown, Duke, and Santa Clara in California. By this time, I’d
already told the Army that I wanted to go to law school, and they had
decided that if I did not get accepted, I would be assigned to one of the
worst posts in the U.S. So, I sent out my applications to those three
schools. Ultimately, God bless them, all three accepted. But Santa Clara
Law School accepted me first and it was that acceptance that allowed me
to advise the Army I was going to law school. I am, therefore, eternally
grateful for Santa Clara’s immediate response because if they hadn’t
accepted me as quickly, I would have been sent to another assignment for
three years and probably another assignment to Vietnam, which might
have put my law school dreams beyond my reach while I was in the
military. Going to law school was another turning point in my life.