Gennine Hagar Interview 3

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Oral History Of Gennine Hagar
Chief U.S. Probation Officer
United States District Court For the District Of Columbia
Third Interview
June 20, 2016
This is the third interview of Gennine Hagar in connection with the Oral History Project of the
Historical Society of the District of Columbia Circuit. The interviewee is Gennine Hagar. The
interviewer is Kurt J. Hamrock. The interview is taking place in the offices of Covington &
Burling, LLP, 850 Tenth Street, NW, Washington, D.C. on June 20, 2016, beginning at 3:15 p.m.
MR. HAMROCK: Thank you for returning and sitting with me once again to speak about
your experiences and memories in the U.S. judicial system here in the
District of Columbia. When last we met we had talked about your
experiences before becoming Chief of the U.S. Probation Office in the
District of Columbia. I’d like to start right there and talk about your
transition from Deputy to Chief. But before you talk about that, though,
could you give me a just a quick summary of your services as Deputy?
MS. HAGAR: Good afternoon, Kurt. It is good to see you again. Regarding my service
as Deputy, I was promoted to Deputy Chief in 2002, and I served as
Deputy Chief until I became Chief in 2007. As the Deputy for five years,
at different periods, I had oversight of the supervision units, Human
Resources (HR), training, clerical staff and later the pre-sentence
investigation unit. At some point, I supervised every unit with the
exception of IT and budget and procurement.
MR. HAMROCK: In 2007 could you describe the transition to serving as Chief?
MS. HAGAR: Yes. The former Chief, Richard Houck retired in September 2006. For
several months, I was acting Co-Chief with the other Deputy Chief, Scott
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Chinn. It was interesting, and at times challenging to have two leaders
who were competing for the same job sharing that job. However, Scott and
I were good friends, so it made it a lot easier. This arrangement lasted
approximately three months. We worked together and things worked out
fine.
MR. HAMROCK: How did the transition actually occur?
MS. HAGAR: Well, we had to interview and compete for the position. The position was
announced nationally. I think there were three final candidates for the
position. A panel of judges that consisted of Judge Henry Kennedy, Judge
Rosemary Collyer, and Judge Royce Lamberth interviewed just Scott and
I. During the interview, I do recall that they started the interview with one
question. Judge Lamberth said simply, “Gennine, tell us why.” So, just
from that one question I had to discuss everything that I wanted to say
about probation, where I wanted the office to go, what I wanted to do, my
background, and qualifications. They asked a few questions along the
way, but it was an open ended discussion and I had to throw it all in.
There did not appear to be set questions and it was the interviewee’s
responsibility to let the panel know what they needed to know or what you
thought they should know about you. After they interviewed us, the panel
made their recommendation to the bench in the U.S. District Court. The
judges voted yes or no for the panel’s recommendation and that is how I
became Chief. Good experience. It really was. However, I was nervous
the whole time. I think we interviewed in the beginning of December and I
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didn’t find out until after the new year. I would have been good with any
decision made by the court.
MR. HAMROCK: Do you remember what you told them?
MS. HAGAR: No. (laughter) A lot of things. I talked about my background. The main
things that I recall were what I told them about my vision for the office – I
remember I said that I wanted it to be the best Probation Office in the
country. I wanted us to focus on the people that we serve, and that
included the Judges, community, people on supervision, and the other
units within the courthouse. Most of my discussion was about service.
Serving others and doing it in a respectful manner. I value treating people
respectfully. I don’t like to see the offenders being treated poorly, waiting
too long in the waiting room or anything like that. I have worked hard to
make sure that our office is professional. It is all about service.
MR. HAMROCK: Do you recall what were some of the issues that the office was
encountering at the time of the transition?
MS. HAGAR: Yes. Low morale. We rarely had money problems in our district. The
leadership – we watched the budget very carefully and because the
judiciary worked to ensure that its law enforcement component was
sufficiently maintained – during my tenure as deputy and chief our office
never had to scramble for money. We had the money to provide the
services to the offenders and to hire staff. Primarily, our budget is based
on the number of people we have on supervision and the number of
investigations that we perform. So, if someone leaves, you don’t replace
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them if the numbers are going down. Regarding morale – the Chief that
preceded me had a different view about how to manage the staff. So, it
was a challenging time because there were many changes. At the time
when my predecessor came to our office, our court felt that the office
needed more structure – a lot more structure than it had. So, he had to
establish rules and higher standards. I can understand why staff felt that it
was a harsher environment. However, at the end of the day, our office
operated better. I learned many things from him about change and
ensuring accountability.
MR. HAMROCK: When you were appointed, for how long is the appointment?
MS. HAGAR: You serve at the pleasure of the court in the federal judiciary. So, most of
the time you are appointed until you retire, unless the judges decide that
they would like to see you leave earlier. Typically, at the point in your
career when most probation officers are selected to be Chief, they only
have several years or so, ten years maybe at the most, before they are
eligible to retire. So, most Chiefs remain in the position until they retire or
maybe until the judges say you need to go. You don’t want the latter.
(laughter)
MR. HAMROCK: Once you got the word that you were going to be selected as Chief, what
changes did you see occur?
MS. HAGAR: At first people are happy about the change. They are happy for you, and
of course you’re happy. Shortly thereafter, reality sets in and you ask
yourself, “What I have done!” Initially, because I’d been in the office
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almost 19 years and had been Deputy I didn’t implement a great deal of
change immediately. We changed many processes and procedures
gradually over the years. However, the focus changed. I worked to have
our efforts focused much more on the offender. During my predecessor’s
term, the office needed more structure and we were focused on submitting
reports and responding to the court timely. This is still our focus as well.
We know that our job is to protect the community and make sure those
things are addressed, but in today’s U.S. Probation Office for Washington,
DC we are much more offender focused. I think overall as a system we
have become more offender focused. Today, you hear about the Second
Chance Act and re-entry. When I started I don’t think re-entry was a term
we even used in community supervision. Many things have changed in
the past ten years.
MR. HAMROCK: Over the course of the ten years, how would you describe just the general
way your office operates?
MS. HAGAR: Primarily, we operate by committees to accomplish many things.
Ultimately, I still make the final decision about most significant matters.
The decision making process hasn’t changed much from that practiced by
previous Chiefs. I’m held accountable if something goes wrong and I’m
the one going to the Judge or community to explain, correct, or even
apologize. When it’s time to make a policy or procedural change I get
staff and management involvement and solicit their advice. Still, at the end
of the day, I have to decide what we will do.
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MR. HAMROCK: When we spoke last we talked about the way the technology had changed
the Probation Office up until the time when you were Deputy. Over the
last ten years have you seen additional changes because of technology?
MS. HAGAR: Yes, indeed. I think one of the first things I began to do as Chief was to
move our office to a less paper environment. Today, we no longer have
physical files that contain information on the individuals on supervision.
All information is entered into a national probation and pretrial services
database. We file or docket our documents electronically into the court’s
database as well. So, moving things from the paper to the automated
programs – has been one of the most significant changes. We conduct
very few tasks via paper. When I started officers, myself included still
used Dictaphones and typewriters. Now, even the individuals on
supervision are able to submit their monthly status reports online. We’ve
done well keeping up with technology. In addition to focusing on the
offender via re-entry efforts, technology has been the second most
significant change in the past ten years.
MR. HAMROCK: How has the, I don’t want to say “typical offender” since there is no
typical offender I guess, when you started as Chief in 2007 versus say,
what you see now in 2016, how would you describe any changes that
you’ve seen in the offenders who your office oversees?
MS. HAGAR: Oh, significant changes. Number one, they are older. They’ve served
longer periods of time in prison. During my early years here, the city was
at the height of the crack epidemic and there were a lot of gangs being
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convicted in our court. I rarely see large gangs in our courtrooms
anymore. The offenders still use crack but they’ve now more moved
towards heroin again. Our revocation rates – if I were to pull them from
the early 90s and compare them to today would have been much higher
back in those days. When offenders come home now they older and a bit
less likely to return to their previous lifestyle. But, as I think about it, I
don’t recall talking to any offender who wanted to return to crime or
drugs. Most of them don’t want to go back to jail – they don’t want to get
back in the lifestyle. However, because of family situations, the inability
to find or keep a job, pressure from their old friends, falling back into an
addiction, some end up going back to prison. Overall, I would say 99.9%
want to the right thing, and live a decent life, but things happen – and it
doesn’t end that way.
MR. HAMROCK: Did I understand a second ago, though, did you say the revocation rate
now is lower than it was in the past?
MS. HAGAR: Yes. In addition, our office has far fewer offenders on supervision in D.C.
now. When I started probably 2,000 -today 800 and that has a lot to do
with the crime rate and cost of living in the city. The supervision numbers
in Maryland are much higher. The Maryland office supervises many
people who would have lived here. However, when they come home
instead of residing in DC, they move to the counties in Maryland where it
is cheaper to live.
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MR. HAMROCK: Let’s talk for about for a bit about the U.S. District Court generally during
your time as Chief. What sort of changes have you seen in the courthouse
during these last ten years?
MS. HAGAR: Well, regarding the physical structure, we did not have the annex when I
started. There used to be a parking lot where the new part of the
courthouse is located. The old section of the courthouse was built in the
50s and there are many problems within the building because of its age.
There were plans to have it renovated, but the court didn’t get the money
for the extensive work that is needed. Regardless, the courtrooms are
awesome – they’re beautiful.
MR. HAMROCK: How would you describe any changes in either people or just the general
day to day operations of the Court?
MS. HAGAR: When I started the Court was very busy and there were a lot of trials. I
think I mentioned earlier there were a lot of gangs and the courthouse was
full most of the day. The hallways were full and the judges were very
busy. Today, not as much at all. Usually, by the afternoon the hallways
are empty, and many judges have finished sitting for the day. That’s a
good thing. Not being busy in law enforcement is a very good thing.
MR. HAMROCK: Who was Chief Judge when you started?
MS. HAGAR: Aubrey Robinson
MR. HAMROCK: And the Chief Judge today is?
MS. HAGAR: Beryl Howell.
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MR. HAMROCK: I know there have been several in between. Without asking for too many
details, have the different personalities of the Chief Judges, do they affect
the way the courthouse runs?
MS. HAGAR: Absolutely. Chief Howell is my fourth Chief Judge as Chief Probation
Officer and probably my eighth since starting at the court. All of the chief
judges operate differently. They all operate their courtrooms and manage
the entire courthouse a bit differently. They work hard to make the
courthouse operate smoothly. Even though there have been many chief
judges, they have one common goal – to make D.C. a courthouse where
justice is served in an efficient, fair, and professional manner. From the
time I started, the judges here have been caring, considerate, and
concerned about the courthouse employees, offenders, and defendants.
Their attitude has been one of the things that has kept me here for more
than 28 years. They give me the autonomy to do my job. As a result, our
office has been able to try new things, and pilot programs without having
to go through a lengthy approval process. They are a great bench.
MR. HAMROCK: As Chief, to whom do you report?
MS. HAGAR: To the Chief Judge. I meet with the Chief Judge routinely to review
what’s going on in the probation office. I discuss matters with the Chief
Judge, tell him or her what I plan to do, get feedback, and almost all of the
time they tell me to proceed as I planned. If I think that something may be
reported in the newspaper or if they should expect a call about an issue, I
let them know. The Chief Judges have not been involved in the hiring
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process. I inform the judge about who I hire or plan to hire and I explain
why. They will look at the credentials and we’ll discuss it, but they don’t
get involved in the day to day operation of the probation office.
MR. HAMROCK: When you became Chief you were one of two Deputies, did you maintain
the two deputy system or did that change?
MS. HAGAR: When I became Chief the other Deputy Scott Chinn became my Deputy
and I had just one deputy for a while. About a year later, he was selected
as the Chief for the District of Connecticut. Following his departure, I
promoted two deputy chiefs, Shari McCoy and Mark McCrosson and I’ve
had two since that time. The District is a great deal smaller now. So, the
Chief that succeeds me probably will not have two deputies.
MR. HAMROCK: Thinking back over the last ten years, since you became Chief, what
events stand out to you as being particularly noteworthy cases or
incidences or events that you recall in your role as Chief?
MS. HAGAR: In my role as Chief, I had the opportunity to sit on the sofa with the former
and late Mayor Marion Barry when he completed his term of supervision.
I have done that with a lot of individuals who were finishing their term of
supervision. I created a survey and during my conversation, I asked them
about the services we provided, sought feedback about how our office
operated, and asked what we could improve upon. Talking with those on
supervision is the highlight of my job. If I see them looking a bit unhappy
when I walk in the front office, I stop and talk with them, and I might
bring them to my office. I talked with Scooter Libby when he completed
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supervision. The offenders offered good suggestions about what would
have helped them while they were on supervision or what we needed to
start or stop doing. I have a file of the completed surveys. Many of the
things that the former offenders have suggested, I have implemented. For
example, some of the white collar offenders said that they wished they had
someone to talk to outside of their family when they came home.
Typically, they might have served five years or so; lost their law degree or
were disbarred or something like that, but didn’t need a psychiatrist, drug
treatment, or mental health therapy. However, they needed to talk. That’s
how our men’s support group began. The men’s group is still operating
today and it is facilitated by the former Director of the Mayor’s Office on
Returning Citizens Affairs Rodney Mitchell. The feedback from the exit
surveys has been good, and I found that offenders are quite honest sharing
their experience on supervision.
MR. HAMROCK: You mentioned the men’s group that was started. What other support
groups or entities like that are currently existing in connection with the
probation office?
MS. HAGAR: Well, since I became Chief we also started a women’s support group. We
have a very small population of women on supervision – I don’t know the
percentage, but I know it’s very small. We started the group and an officer
offered to oversee it. We started our Work Force Development Program
since I became Chief and that’s a program in which we help the offenders
obtain employment, job skills, education, and other things related to
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employment. I just finished a pilot with Criminon International. This
program taught offenders life, communication, and study skills. Criminon
offers a series of many wonderful courses. We just started a re-entry
court. Attorney General Loretta Lynch spoke at the opening two weeks
ago. Our re-entry court is designed to help high risk offenders reintegrate
into society. They meet with the judge once or twice or month. Every
other year, we have an employer and community partner appreciation
breakfast. The employers who hire the people on supervision and the
agencies within the community who assist us in our reentry efforts are
invited. Our judges are also invited and typically, at least seven to ten
judges attend. The judges talk with the employers and agencies and thank
them for hiring our offenders. The employers who come seem to enjoy it,
and the judges love participating. We provide certificates to all
community participants and awards to offenders who have been
outstanding employees.
MR. HAMROCK: You mentioned the latest group – high risk offenders – high risk of what?
What constitutes a high risk offender?
MS. HAGAR: First of all, they’ve served double digits in prison – ten years or more.
They have a prior criminal history of violent offenses, serious drug
offenses, those types of things. We also do a risk assessment. There is a
national tool that we use to determine the offender’s risk level. Primarily,
risk is based on the prior criminal history, instant offense, work history,
education, drug abuse history, and other areas of one’s personal history.
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MR. HAMROCK: Going back to the general operation of the Probation Office now, I know
you’ve said there has been a reduction in the number of people in the
office. Could you just generally describe the current operation of the
office? How many people do such and such different tasks?
MS. HAGAR: The office is divided primarily into a group of officers who supervise
offenders within the community and officers who conduct presentence
investigations. There are three or four supervision units, one pre-sentence
unit. Earlier, I mentioned a reduction in our numbers. Years ago there
were seven supervision units that had seven officers each, and two presentence units that had seven or eight officers. We have an IT Department
that consists of four people, two budget and property and procurement
staff, a clerical staff of about five and two HR staff. Due to technology,
we are able to operate with a smaller support staff. Today, there is one
clerk for seven officers. When I started in 1988, there was one clerk for
every three officers. Now, the officers enter their work themselves at their
desk, on their IPad or on their phone since our national data base has a
software app. We also have two deputies and a supervisor for each of the
supervision units, the PSI units. The management staff consists of ten
individuals and the remainder of the staff are line officers, IT, or support.
MR. HAMROCK: Over the past ten years there have been a whole lot of issues involving
security issues, here in the country, here in the District, terrorism issues,
general concern about safety. Has that affected the operation of the
Probation Office at all?
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MS. HAGAR: To some degree. Well, we’re in the courthouse, so anyone coming in has
to go through security as they would in any of the other federal buildings.
We’re not like some of the other districts that have field offices and have
to provide their own security. Regarding officers’ security, the officers
have the option to determine whether they wish to carry a firearm – about
half of them do. They are all required to wear a safety vest when they are
working in the community. We all have custom safety vests. We have a
safety and firearms committee. Officers receive firearms, defensive
tactics, and even defensive driving training. They must undergo quarterly
firearms requalification. We also have a national training academy in
South Carolina.
MR. HAMROCK: Let’s switch topics. We’ve talked a lot about your family. Up until the
time you became Chief, over the last ten years. Tell me about your
family.
MS. HAGAR: All of them are still alive and well, my grandfather included. My son
graduated from college and works for an accounting firm in D.C. My
husband and I will be married 33 years this Saturday. My mother is doing
well. So, the family is doing well right now. That is truly a blessing.
MR. HAMROCK: Excellent. I know when last we talked, I know you said you were going to
be retiring this year. What plans do you have following retirement?
MS. HAGAR: Initially – none. To enjoy life. This time next summer I want to wake up
with nothing to do. The job of a probation officer – the job is intense and I
don’t have much down time at all thanks to the iPhone and all of the other
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technological communication devices. My current Chief Judge recently
commented that she thought we would get a lot more applicants for my
position. I smiled and reminded her that in addition to making sure that
everything operates and is presented well for the judges, there are many
other facets of this position. I have officers on the street every day and
into the night who carry firearms, who are going into dangerous
communities. U.S. Probation is a national system, so I have to stay
abreast of what’s going on in the system as a whole about re-entry, new
programs, policies, and all that. There is a lot to keep up with and there is
a lot of stress that comes along with the responsibilities you have. In
addition, we are given a budget that I have to oversee. There’s no one else
making the decisions about the money my office has been allotted. I have
a financial manager who provides great advice and oversees the financial
records. Hiring, firing, and disciplining employees are routine stressors.
There’s a lot to being Chief. But, I recognize that God gave me the grace
to handle it all. Thankfully, no one has been shot or killed, so that’s great
thing. I have had one officer die from cancer and another commit suicide.
The stress is ever present. So, I look forward to not doing anything for at
least a short period of time. I’ve started to give back some, by teaching
for University of Phoenix online. I teach Ethics in Criminal Justice and I
enjoy helping students learn what law enforcement is really like. I spend a
great deal of time trying to paint a true picture about law enforcement, the
courts, and the people on supervision. Teaching is truly rewarding, but
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teaching and being Chief is tough. I get home from work and I’m online
until midnight. It takes that much to do it right.
MR. HAMROCK: Thinking back now, the way the system works now when someone, well
let’s say when someone comes out of incarceration now versus when that
same person might have come out during the start of your career, how do
things defer for that person in terms of what he or she faces, what kind of
resources they have – the difficulties they have?
MS. HAGAR: I have ex-offenders tell me that it’s far better for them today than in the
past because Congress and the public in general did not seem to care about
ex-offenders. Congress even passed the Second Chance Act to help with
re-entry efforts. As far as the officers, the things that we do for offenders
differ today. In the past, when they returned from prison, we would give
them leads about jobs, but pretty much they had to find something on their
own. Today, I have an officer dedicated to helping them with employment
and getting job skills. It is different. And I think the court is different as
well. Judges seem to take far more interest in working with the officers to
help rehabilitate the offenders. For the judges in our court in DC – I can’t
speak for any place else – revocation of supervision was always our last
course of action, unless the person had done something so egregious that
they had to be removed from society. There is more help via community
resources and programs and there is more funding. Simple things, like
Metro passes – we’re able to provide for offenders who need them. Under
Second Chance Act, if they need tools for a new job, we’re able to provide
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them- we never could have done that before. In earlier days, some officers
would come out of their own pocket to help offenders.
MR. HAMROCK: In the current world, do you have any interaction with your counterparts in
the D.C. Superior Court system?
MS. HAGAR: Absolutely. I know the Director of the Court Services and Offender
Supervision Agency well. We work together. For example, we have an
agreement that addresses a person who is on supervision in Superior Court
and in our court. We don’t require the person to report to our office and
then go across the street and report to the other agency. To be good
stewards of the taxpayers’ money, the person is required to report to only
one agency who supervises the case for both courts. Maintaining a good
relationship with the city sister agency is crucial. We also work closely
with the programs in the city, since we desire to have the offenders
familiar with these services, so that they are able to get the help they need
after they complete supervision. For example, most of our offenders with
mental health issues obtain their services through city providers. So, when
they complete supervision they won’t have a break in treatment. They are
already linked to some agency or psychiatrist within the community. We
are thinking about their welfare far past their term of supervision.
MR. HAMROCK: One of the things that has changed much, I’m sure, since you started in the
last few years, there has been a move to legalize marijuana, for example.
Do you see the liberation of that as having any effect on your office?
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MS. HAGAR: Yes. Offenders often ask if they can use marijuana because it is legal in
D.C. We inform them that federal law does not permit legal marijuana
usage, so it’s still illegal for them. Personally – maybe I’ve been in law
enforcement too long – I don’t agree with legalizing marijuana. When I
interviewed offenders, I found that marijuana was often the first drug of
choice. So, that has tainted me quite a bit. I would not say that is going to
lead to other drug usage, but the men and women that I talked with started
with marijuana and their illegal drug usage just continued to escalate.
MR. HAMROCK: Thinking back now over the course of your career, are they any things that
you would do differently knowing what you know now or any events that
took place that you wish you could back and handle differently?
MS. HAGAR: Hmm…that’s a tough one. I would have to think about that a bit more.
Well, some of the bad experiences were good teaching moments for me.
When I started, most of the offenders on my caseload were older than me,
so they would try to take advantage of my inexperience. I quickly learned
the games and recognized the lies. There was not much I could have done
differently in those situations, other than to learn quickly and not repeat
mistakes. Even with the difficult employees – I would like to have all
employees who did their work well and didn’t complain. However, even
from the complainers, the employees who were asked to leave, or ones we
had to terminate, I learned things. From some employee’s mistakes, I
discovered gaps in our system – how was this person able to do or avoid
doing something? My job was then to seal the gaps.
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MR. HAMROCK: Again, thinking back over the course of your career, are there any
particular individuals who stand out to you as being the best sort of
mentors or figures upon which you based your career?
MS. HAGAR: Sure. One of my supervisors, Ralph Ardito. He spoke at my swearing in
ceremony. I remember my first day on the job walking in – what is now
the annex but it was a parking lot then. I saw a red car and the
personalized tag read “Parole”. I remember thinking that person is too
much into their job. Who in the world would have that on their tag? Well,
well, that person would be my supervisor one day. Ralph Ardito was a
loud, but kind Italian from Connecticut. He died a few years ago. I
learned from him how to establish rapport with offenders. He was a white
man working with an all-black population. He loved working with them
and the offenders seemed to respect and communicate well with him.
Communication is the most significant skill you have to learn as a
probation officer – when to be quiet, when to listen, when to step in, when
to say no, and when to let them cry. I learned how to do my job well
because he made me produce my best. I remember him telling me, your
report better be right because I’m only reading it once. He wouldn’t
answer my questions as a new officer if he knew it was in our policy or
our local or national policy. He’d say, “Look it up.” Now if he already
knew it was something that wasn’t in there, he would tell me. I learned
over the years that Ralph’s way was a good way and that is how I train my
supervisors now. I don’t answer the question every time the officer walks
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in. They will never learn what the policy is or where it is found until they
have to research it themselves. Ralph had a tough exterior, but a kind
heart. He made me an excellent officer and better person. That’s a mark
of a good mentor.
MR. HAMROCK: Any other mentors stand out in your mind?
MS. HAGAR: All the officers who trained me served as mentors. It does indeed take a
village to make a good probation officer. Outside of my family and others
at work, there is one person that I admire and he doesn’t know it. When I
was deputy and I attended one of the law enforcement meetings in the city
regularly. I used to watch Police Chief Charles Ramsey in the meetings.
Oftentimes, some individuals in the meeting would be going on about the
D.C. Police – you all need to do this, why aren’t you doing that. I
remember one day – one meeting in particular – his response to someone
who was telling him what his agency needed to do was that the person’s
adamant suggestion may be a priority for her agency right now but not for
his. He remained so calm and reserved. His composure was admirable. I
always sat close to him and watched him closely from that day until I no
longer attended the meetings. He would always respond very
appropriately, succinctly, and calmly. I marveled at his demeanor.
MR. HAMROCK: Let’s shift and look ahead now. So, if you are going to give advice to your
replacement in a few months, are there any lessons learned that you’d pass
along to him or her?
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MS. HAGAR: Yes. Be patient. Don’t rush to make a decision. Always tell the truth.
When you can’t tell the truth, don’t say anything. Be kind and always just
work to make the best decision that you can at that time. Later it may turn
out that wasn’t a good decision, but always at that time try to make the
best decision that you can. After you make a decision, you want to be able
to feel that based on the information that you had at the time, you made
the best decision you could. Always keep your character in order –
always. And pray. Pray for the people that you work for, for yourself, for
the community, and for the people on supervision.
MR. HAMROCK: Looking ahead with the benefit of a few years of service, where do you
see the challenges facing the Probation Office, say over the next ten years?
MS. HAGAR: The challenges will center around cyber-crime and monitoring those
offenders. New crimes have emerged. As you know, some crimes did not
exist until computers were invented and began to be used by the general
public. Hacking – offenders used to steal identities, but not in the way
they do today. The other issue of body cameras and police being videoed
by the public when they are performing their duties will remain a hot
issue. I have told my officers to always assume that the camera is on.
About a year ago – someone from the community called me and said when
the officer came to his home, the offender had his computer on and
recorded what happened. Nothing bad, but I was like, hmm, so that’s
something to consider. There has been an increase in sex offenses. We
use different supervision techniques to monitor offenders who commit
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these types of crimes. For decades we supervised abusers, primarily.
With the advent of new crimes, we use special mechanisms to search
computers. Keeping up with technological crimes will continue to remain
a challenge.
MR. HAMROCK: Other prognostications?
MS. HAGAR: The Millennials and Gen-Xers don’t come to stay. This generation of
officers don’t appear to have a problem changing jobs or leaving the
profession. When I was hired, most of us came in with mindset we would
retire from this job. The mindset of the younger generation is more like –
I’ll see how goes. If it goes ok, I’ll stay, but if there is a better
opportunity, I’m gone. Also, because they are so accustomed to
communicating via an electronic device, personal communication skills
are somewhat diminished. I witness that some would rather carry on a
conversation via email than walk down the hall to talk to another person.
Personal communication skills are crucial when you are providing services
and supervising someone. You shouldn’t do it via a text. You have to talk
to people in person to address critical life issues.
MR. HAMROCK: Let’s pursue that just a little bit. Because I hadn’t thought about that
before, but I know you’ve said in your past sessions here that the personal
touch, the personal interaction with the offenders is so critical at all stages
and you’re right at least the perception is the younger generation is less
skilled than that because they are more focused on devices. What kind of
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advice would you give to the new Chief on how to train new probation
officers in this case?
MS. HAGAR: Pretty much the same way we were trained. We were taught to develop
our interpersonal skills. As part of our training, our supervisors would
watch you interact with people, watch you conduct a pre-sentence
investigation, go with you when you visited the offender’s home, and give
you honest feedback. Simple things like – when a person starts to cry,
stop interviewing. I mean, some things you’d think people would just
know, but they do not. Instead of just plugging through and ignoring the
person’s emotions, acknowledge what is happening, and show
compassion. Interviewing skills and using emotional intelligence are key.
MR. HAMROCK: I wonder, I know you said earlier, that typically the offenders seem to be
older now. I guess at some point that will change and they will become
younger again. I wonder how that, I don’t want to say shorter attention
span – that’s probably not quite right, but I wonder how the new
generation of offenders will interact with their probation officers, if they
will be…
MS. HAGAR: They might be fine with the texts and who knows? I’ll keep an eye on it.
MR. HAMROCK: Interesting.
MS. HAGAR: It is. It is.